They'll obviously have to vacate all wins in which players who should have been ruled ineligible participated. Even Bama and FSU had to do that, even though the coaches weren't aware of the transgressions in their cases, either. It's funny listening to the Trojan fans yelling the same thing as the Bama and FSU fans about the coaches not knowing, so nothing should happen to them... these same Trojan fans told the Tide and Nole fans that was no excuse, before they found out they were in the same boat. Hypocrisy at its finest.
So, they'll lose the wins, NC, and bowl games at the very least... there's precedent for that already this past year. Bush should lose his Heisman, because he was no longer an amateur from the moment he and/or his family accepted money and/or "gifts". The sheer amount of money involved, and the lack of oversight in the 2 biggest sports in the athletic department certainly suggests a lack of institutional control... it's almost like there was an accepted environment of cheating in the department. USC fans seem to be making the same errors in judgment that every other fan base has made in similar situations... they mistakenly think because it wasn't actual coaches giving the money that their program can't be held liable for the actions of boosters, fans, benefactors, or "opportunists". WRONG. That's what a school's compliance department is for... keeping tabs on those issues, and reporting their findings. So, as all programs facing probation have discovered, whether it's incompetence or duplicity on the part of the compliance department, the program is still on the hook and responsible.
Additionally, USC didn't investigate or self-report anything about the Bush case; even after it was all over the news. Even if USC coaches and compliance officials weren't aware of the payments and gifts when they actually happened (which I find impossible to believe), they knew about them right before they were front page news, and still did nothing... the fact is that they hoped it would go away. It didn't. Not self-reporting gets a program in much more serious trouble than if they reported and attempted to correct the situation themselves. I don't see how they avoid post-season penalties, in addition to the probation, scholarship losses, and vacating of wins.
The only thing that will maybe happen is that they will have to forfeit a couple games from the 2005 season. Southern Cal brings in to much money for the NCAA, and the NCAA knows that not having USC in a BCS bowl game hurts them financialy.
If the USC coaches didn't know about the improper monies the players received the sports agents in the locker rooms was a dead giveaway!!! I think that the ncaa needs to think about the sports that they "oversee" and quit playing favorites. If USC were to get the same treatment as anyother program (forfeture of games,monies,trophys,post sesason bans,and scholarship reductions) UCLA,ARIZONA,OR/AND OREGON would steep in to replace their monies to the ncaa pot. USC Should be slaped with a severe penalty for trying to cover all of their crimes by not wanting to know the truth.What this farce of a penalty is going to do is tell everyone that they should not self-police but cover up wait 3 years and gain all they can then stonewall the investigators. Too bad WITCHATAW STATE didn't know about this tactic, they might still have a football program. Should the ncaa apoligise to SMU for picking favorites????
jjp: When you talk about Alabama and FSU, you're talking about large numbers of student athletes participating in violations. At USC, it was ONE person from football and ONE person from basketball. In the case of Reggie Bush, it was his PARENTS who were receiving the benefits. Apples and oranges....you must have gone to a pay-your-fee, get your degree school...
Thank You, I thought I was the only person that noticed this. It was ONE person from each sport not the whole damn team. And Why do you think this case took so long to come into fruition...... because the case has more holes than swiss cheese.
it does not matter if it is one or if it is the whole team. The team is responsible for policing itself and when it gets out of line the administration should step in. When that fails that is when the NCAA should step in. I agree with someone that posted earlier. Bush should come clean and admit what he has done.
Do you honestlyy think only one person on the team was involved? Please, unpleasant as it is the reality is that they won with an ineligible player on the team. The rules clearly state whether or not (and they did) know about transgressions by Bush, Mayo, the entire season is forfeit. Period. you cannot have agents in your locker room, if so all players in the locker room are now ineligible.
God, you people are morons...so, the seriousness of the violation doesn't matter? You equate selling textbooks to other students with taking money from a sports agent? OK, here's a name...Antonio Langham...signed with an agent, told Stallings he didn't and Bama got hammered. What Bush did was no less flagrant. Same penalty is in order.
What you are proposing is akin to getting the same penalty for cheating at a game of cards and cheating on your income taxes.
Haha. It was seriously funny reading JJP's post. He tried so hard to lend himself a little credence with big words like "precedent" and "duplicity." Sadly, he comes off as just another USC hater who thinks his emotions run concurrently with the facts of the case.
In reality, he doesn't know squat, and neither do the rest of us. But I'm pretty sure I know more about this case than he does, being a USC alum. And it's all but a foregone conclusion that FSU, 'Bama, South 'Bama, and Memphis were guilty of a far greater degree of official misconduct than USC football.
Don't expect any big sanctions for USC football, haters. ;)
Hey, Barius, if, as a USC alumnut, you think "precedent" and "duplicity" are big words, then there may be more wrong at USC than its well-documented propensity to cheat in the atletics arena. (And that's in football and basketball, in case you haven't been paying attention.)
Barius, do you honestly believe that nothing occured at USC and that Reggie Bush didn't take the money and live rent free in a home worth 750K? In my opinion if you guys don't get the death penalty there is no justice in this country.
Havent followed all the allegations on this but I do believe that USC has a smackdown coming from the NCAA and it wont be light. Assuming the allegations are true. Suspect they are true and with the university trying to cover it up along with a few others. I should say make it even more difficult that would lead us to believe in some serious penalties. Dont it will matter. They have some great talent. Lets see what the new coach can do. The loss of their coaching staff over the years has been a greater hurt then all this other mumbo jumbo.
washington is on the rise and so is some other schools from rebuilding efforts. The Pac10 needs it. The Mtn wst has made them look silly.
Moron. Barracks lawyer. Both. The "allegations" have yet to be proven. Whatever will you do if they remain that way? Off to your favorite watering hole to whine with other buttheads. You must be absolutely insufferable at the office.
If the allegations are true USC should receive the death penalty which would be the perfect example of what to expect if you cheat and even worse cheat with arrogance. FSU did NOT get what they deserved and only Bobby Bowden got penalized. USC is the spitting image of SMU with even less institutional control; however, the NCAA doesn't have the will to do what's right. Also, if you compare Stanford or Notre Dame to USC in terms of institutional control and integrity, well there is no comparison. USC is like North Korea and Stanford is like Mother Teresa.
Yeah sounds like "Lack of Institutional Control" to me. 2 Players in trouble in the last 4 years...... Give me a break, Haters. Can't beat them on the field pray that the big bad NCAA will do it for them.
Isn't it punishment enought that they have Lane Kiffin as their Head Coach. That guy is going to sink that program right into the Le Brea Tarpits. Bye Bye USCw!!!!
Considering that the Vols manhandled the Gators with a mediocre/ interception prone quarterback...... I like my chances. I think Lane will be fine with all of the talent that this young USC team will provide for him to win games..... a far cry from what Tennessee had.
Does anyone really think that USC will receive anything meaningful or significant as a penalty? Yeah right. USC brings fans to games and will receive a token penalty and the usual slap on the wrist with some loss of scholarships (temporarily) that will mean nothing to players would would pay zillions of dollars just to play there and get the national exposure to the NFL scouts that playing there does to a guy's future NFL career.
To me, what is more important in this debate, and I think should be to all those who care about athletics and academics in University; how much power does the NCAA really have and how much do they care for their own governing body to do what is right, and do they really have the interests of the student-athlete in mind when making decisions?
Is the NCAA a toothless façade for a bunch of suits, an entertaining dog and pony show? Are they a relic from a bye gone era where there was an ideology of fair play and fair-mindedness was all the rage?
The Universities’ will behave in much the same way as people always do and that is to cut corners, finagle advantages for their charges and the heck with everyone else when no one is looking. Can the NCAA regain its power and do something meaningful? Or will it fail all of every student across the nation with a feckless punishment rendering them useless and irrelevant? If they are weak in this, will there be another body who will step in and control the reigns of college sports and oversee the student athlete and champion fair play for all? This may be the NCAA’s Waterloo.
Look at University of Washington when they got hit with sanctions for five years it hurt. UW couldn't go bowl games for five years and lost recruiting restrictions/scholarship reductions. So stop complain about your teams . USC broke the rules they shouldn't slap on like kid they big boys.
Not a very good poll.... Did it occur to the person that wrote it there will be a combination of all the 3 options of penalties?? Please put more thought in your polls
I agree Keith. Terrible and slanted poll due to the lack of freedom to respond in only certain ways. Terrible journalism at best. Yes a gross lack of institutional controls certainly seems to be in order. And for any of you who disagree that the university shouldn't be punished for one person's actions.....rethink that view. EVEN if none of his teammates or coaches knew, not likely, but ok. NCAA justice is the same as military justice, one guy can get and entire company or wing penalized to discourage morons from doing just what Bush has done. Oh yes, he's as guilty as sin, otherwise why settle? NO reason except to avoid the really bad publicity and ugly details that would certainly surface. Why does anyone think Pete flew the coop? This case smells like really serious violations that won't be resolved with a slap on the hand. And who cares about USC in the Pac 10 anyway? There are other really good teams that are deserving of the respect they don't get because of Hollywood U. Reggie should man up, he won't, and just lay it out, apologize and move on. He is about to take his Alma Mater down the toilet where he obviously resides. What ever in the way of trophies or team awards should go and NO tv games or bowls for one year and scholarship limits for 2 years. Punishment should fit the crime and this is about as serious as it gets.
"It was only one person from each of the biggest two programs on campus." In the military we have a thing that is called a code. We also have this thing that we say and try to live our lives by. " I will not lie, cheat, or steal, not tolerate anyone amongst us that do."
People that are making excuses for SC are the same people that don't understand why we have rules in the first place. That program earned the death penalty. All cheating is bad. However; I will say it's more acceptable giving student atheletes books as was the case with Alabama. Auburn earned that trophy or a portion of that trophy by doing things the right way. It's time that we send a message to the USC's of the world and give them the punishment that they earned.
token sanctions...everybody knows the NCAA licks USC's bag...couple of text books bam bama' on death row...same for FSU....USC gets there bag licked!
They'll obviously have to vacate all wins in which players who should have been ruled ineligible participated. Even Bama and FSU had to do that, even though the coaches weren't aware of the transgressions in their cases, either. It's funny listening to the Trojan fans yelling the same thing as the Bama and FSU fans about the coaches not knowing, so nothing should happen to them... these same Trojan fans told the Tide and Nole fans that was no excuse, before they found out they were in the same boat. Hypocrisy at its finest.
So, they'll lose the wins, NC, and bowl games at the very least... there's precedent for that already this past year. Bush should lose his Heisman, because he was no longer an amateur from the moment he and/or his family accepted money and/or "gifts". The sheer amount of money involved, and the lack of oversight in the 2 biggest sports in the athletic department certainly suggests a lack of institutional control... it's almost like there was an accepted environment of cheating in the department. USC fans seem to be making the same errors in judgment that every other fan base has made in similar situations... they mistakenly think because it wasn't actual coaches giving the money that their program can't be held liable for the actions of boosters, fans, benefactors, or "opportunists". WRONG. That's what a school's compliance department is for... keeping tabs on those issues, and reporting their findings. So, as all programs facing probation have discovered, whether it's incompetence or duplicity on the part of the compliance department, the program is still on the hook and responsible.
Additionally, USC didn't investigate or self-report anything about the Bush case; even after it was all over the news. Even if USC coaches and compliance officials weren't aware of the payments and gifts when they actually happened (which I find impossible to believe), they knew about them right before they were front page news, and still did nothing... the fact is that they hoped it would go away. It didn't. Not self-reporting gets a program in much more serious trouble than if they reported and attempted to correct the situation themselves. I don't see how they avoid post-season penalties, in addition to the probation, scholarship losses, and vacating of wins.
Hate USC much JJ?
Hate USC much JJ?
The only thing that will maybe happen is that they will have to forfeit a couple games from the 2005 season. Southern Cal brings in to much money for the NCAA, and the NCAA knows that not having USC in a BCS bowl game hurts them financialy.
If the USC coaches didn't know about the improper monies the players received the sports agents in the locker rooms was a dead giveaway!!! I think that the ncaa needs to think about the sports that they "oversee" and quit playing favorites. If USC were to get the same treatment as anyother program (forfeture of games,monies,trophys,post sesason bans,and scholarship reductions) UCLA,ARIZONA,OR/AND OREGON would steep in to replace their monies to the ncaa pot. USC Should be slaped with a severe penalty for trying to cover all of their crimes by not wanting to know the truth.What this farce of a penalty is going to do is tell everyone that they should not self-police but cover up wait 3 years and gain all they can then stonewall the investigators. Too bad WITCHATAW STATE didn't know about this tactic, they might still have a football program. Should the ncaa apoligise to SMU for picking favorites????
They werent in a BCS game this year. The 96 team bball tourny can cover not having USC in a bowl for a few years. Drop the hammer.
ABC AND ESPN. really that's all you have to say. This is a corporate, contract & ratings issue.
As in all war follow the money. ABC AND ESPN DO THIS FOR FOR MONEY.
Colleges have football programs for money. The NCAA is the hypocrite here.
Huge ratings when USC is on the air even in the Emerald nut bowl... Truth. Look up the numbers. The NCAA knows where the bread is buttered. Period.
They will do some sort of penalty but it will not affect the $$$.
USC will go on we we will all wax poetic of Paul bear Bryant, The four Horseman and will Joe Paterno ever quit?
Beautiful. :D
jjp: When you talk about Alabama and FSU, you're talking about large numbers of student athletes participating in violations. At USC, it was ONE person from football and ONE person from basketball. In the case of Reggie Bush, it was his PARENTS who were receiving the benefits. Apples and oranges....you must have gone to a pay-your-fee, get your degree school...
Thank You, I thought I was the only person that noticed this. It was ONE person from each sport not the whole damn team. And Why do you think this case took so long to come into fruition...... because the case has more holes than swiss cheese.
it does not matter if it is one or if it is the whole team. The team is responsible for policing itself and when it gets out of line the administration should step in. When that fails that is when the NCAA should step in. I agree with someone that posted earlier. Bush should come clean and admit what he has done.
Do you honestlyy think only one person on the team was involved? Please, unpleasant as it is the reality is that they won with an ineligible player on the team. The rules clearly state whether or not (and they did) know about transgressions by Bush, Mayo, the entire season is forfeit. Period. you cannot have agents in your locker room, if so all players in the locker room are now ineligible.
God, you people are morons...so, the seriousness of the violation doesn't matter? You equate selling textbooks to other students with taking money from a sports agent? OK, here's a name...Antonio Langham...signed with an agent, told Stallings he didn't and Bama got hammered. What Bush did was no less flagrant. Same penalty is in order.
What you are proposing is akin to getting the same penalty for cheating at a game of cards and cheating on your income taxes.
Haha. It was seriously funny reading JJP's post. He tried so hard to lend himself a little credence with big words like "precedent" and "duplicity." Sadly, he comes off as just another USC hater who thinks his emotions run concurrently with the facts of the case.
In reality, he doesn't know squat, and neither do the rest of us. But I'm pretty sure I know more about this case than he does, being a USC alum. And it's all but a foregone conclusion that FSU, 'Bama, South 'Bama, and Memphis were guilty of a far greater degree of official misconduct than USC football.
Don't expect any big sanctions for USC football, haters. ;)
Hey, Barius, if, as a USC alumnut, you think "precedent" and "duplicity" are big words, then there may be more wrong at USC than its well-documented propensity to cheat in the atletics arena. (And that's in football and basketball, in case you haven't been paying attention.)
Barius, do you honestly believe that nothing occured at USC and that Reggie Bush didn't take the money and live rent free in a home worth 750K? In my opinion if you guys don't get the death penalty there is no justice in this country.
Havent followed all the allegations on this but I do believe that USC has a smackdown coming from the NCAA and it wont be light. Assuming the allegations are true. Suspect they are true and with the university trying to cover it up along with a few others. I should say make it even more difficult that would lead us to believe in some serious penalties. Dont it will matter. They have some great talent. Lets see what the new coach can do. The loss of their coaching staff over the years has been a greater hurt then all this other mumbo jumbo.
washington is on the rise and so is some other schools from rebuilding efforts. The Pac10 needs it. The Mtn wst has made them look silly.
Moron. Barracks lawyer. Both. The "allegations" have yet to be proven. Whatever will you do if they remain that way? Off to your favorite watering hole to whine with other buttheads. You must be absolutely insufferable at the office.
If the allegations are true USC should receive the death penalty which would be the perfect example of what to expect if you cheat and even worse cheat with arrogance. FSU did NOT get what they deserved and only Bobby Bowden got penalized. USC is the spitting image of SMU with even less institutional control; however, the NCAA doesn't have the will to do what's right. Also, if you compare Stanford or Notre Dame to USC in terms of institutional control and integrity, well there is no comparison. USC is like North Korea and Stanford is like Mother Teresa.
Yeah sounds like "Lack of Institutional Control" to me. 2 Players in trouble in the last 4 years...... Give me a break, Haters. Can't beat them on the field pray that the big bad NCAA will do it for them.
After the SMU debacle no major school will get the death penalty, Restrictions only for USC.
Isn't it punishment enought that they have Lane Kiffin as their Head Coach. That guy is going to sink that program right into the Le Brea Tarpits. Bye Bye USCw!!!!
Considering that the Vols manhandled the Gators with a mediocre/ interception prone quarterback...... I like my chances. I think Lane will be fine with all of the talent that this young USC team will provide for him to win games..... a far cry from what Tennessee had.
Does anyone really think that USC will receive anything meaningful or significant as a penalty? Yeah right. USC brings fans to games and will receive a token penalty and the usual slap on the wrist with some loss of scholarships (temporarily) that will mean nothing to players would would pay zillions of dollars just to play there and get the national exposure to the NFL scouts that playing there does to a guy's future NFL career.
Gee, fwadams, can't imagine why jj might hate USC--it's name has become synonomous with cheating. If you are a USC fan, YOU should be ashamed.
To me, what is more important in this debate, and I think should be to all those who care about athletics and academics in University; how much power does the NCAA really have and how much do they care for their own governing body to do what is right, and do they really have the interests of the student-athlete in mind when making decisions?
Is the NCAA a toothless façade for a bunch of suits, an entertaining dog and pony show? Are they a relic from a bye gone era where there was an ideology of fair play and fair-mindedness was all the rage?
The Universities’ will behave in much the same way as people always do and that is to cut corners, finagle advantages for their charges and the heck with everyone else when no one is looking. Can the NCAA regain its power and do something meaningful? Or will it fail all of every student across the nation with a feckless punishment rendering them useless and irrelevant? If they are weak in this, will there be another body who will step in and control the reigns of college sports and oversee the student athlete and champion fair play for all? This may be the NCAA’s Waterloo.
Careful, too many big words and Barius will get upset. Stop being so logical, he can't handle it.
Look at University of Washington when they got hit with sanctions for five years it hurt. UW couldn't go bowl games for five years and lost recruiting restrictions/scholarship reductions. So stop complain about your teams . USC broke the rules they shouldn't slap on like kid they big boys.
Not a very good poll.... Did it occur to the person that wrote it there will be a combination of all the 3 options of penalties?? Please put more thought in your polls
Alabama will have to forfeit 5 more games and lose 10 scholarships.
I agree Keith. Terrible and slanted poll due to the lack of freedom to respond in only certain ways. Terrible journalism at best. Yes a gross lack of institutional controls certainly seems to be in order. And for any of you who disagree that the university shouldn't be punished for one person's actions.....rethink that view. EVEN if none of his teammates or coaches knew, not likely, but ok. NCAA justice is the same as military justice, one guy can get and entire company or wing penalized to discourage morons from doing just what Bush has done. Oh yes, he's as guilty as sin, otherwise why settle? NO reason except to avoid the really bad publicity and ugly details that would certainly surface. Why does anyone think Pete flew the coop? This case smells like really serious violations that won't be resolved with a slap on the hand. And who cares about USC in the Pac 10 anyway? There are other really good teams that are deserving of the respect they don't get because of Hollywood U. Reggie should man up, he won't, and just lay it out, apologize and move on. He is about to take his Alma Mater down the toilet where he obviously resides. What ever in the way of trophies or team awards should go and NO tv games or bowls for one year and scholarship limits for 2 years. Punishment should fit the crime and this is about as serious as it gets.
"It was only one person from each of the biggest two programs on campus." In the military we have a thing that is called a code. We also have this thing that we say and try to live our lives by. " I will not lie, cheat, or steal, not tolerate anyone amongst us that do."
People that are making excuses for SC are the same people that don't understand why we have rules in the first place. That program earned the death penalty. All cheating is bad. However; I will say it's more acceptable giving student atheletes books as was the case with Alabama. Auburn earned that trophy or a portion of that trophy by doing things the right way. It's time that we send a message to the USC's of the world and give them the punishment that they earned.
Does Chris Webber ring a bell? Throw the book NCAA, THROW IT!!