I think its a lot harder now with all of the football coverage of other conferences to sell Notre Dame as a football powerhouse. They haven't been #1 since 1988, while schools like USC, LSU, Florida, Miami, Ohio State and Texas have all become much bigger players in the football microverse. Most 18 year old kids these days don't see ND as being better than other schools because they haven't delivered on the field much in the last 9-10 years.
Scholastic restrictions are not that far in front of a lot of other schools who have had successful seasons in the last 9-10 years, and less than Stanford or Northwestern. Also, I would think that being a Catholic school in a smaller Indiana town can't help when trying to lure a football player who is also being courted by Georgia, LSU, USC, etc..
#1 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:16 PM ESTYes ND has not had been national champ since 1988, yet in 1993 they beat the champ Florida State early in the year then lost to BC at the end of the year. Florida state being a 1 lost team and ND a 1 lost team and the coaches throw Bobbie Bowden a bone. There is plenty of intelligent top level players in the country who value an education beyond their playing days. We've heard this story in the past, and a coach who can motivate can win anywhere, not just the south and not just in a diploma mill university. Hire the right person, and then stand back.
If Notre Dame really wants to win, they really have to lower the academic standards of the athletes. Unfortunately those people with the higher GPA's are not the best athletes. It is time to lower the overall GPA's of these athletes and get back to the winning ways. The blame has to be shifted from the coaches and directed towards the players. How can a coach be replaced every three to five years. This is embarrassing and really exposes a mediocre program that is full of inept athletes. Let us not kid ourselves here, at this rate the next coach is bound to be fired within the next three to five years. How can you even attract the best coaches in the program. To summarize all this I will say that the blame should be shifted to the incompetent athletes and not on the coaches. Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham, Charlie Weis. Who is the next coach that wants to be put on the chopping block within the next three to five years?
#2 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:16 PM ESTThey can win again, if they get the right head coach. People seem to forget when other traditional powers have had prolonged stretches of sub par years. Oklahoma, USC, Alabama, Miami, Nebraska, Florida State all had theirs in the last twenty years and nobody read them their last rites and they certainly didn't have the academic standards to contend with. ND needs a head coach with successful head coaching experience, not a Davie, Faust or a Weis. Get the right coach and they'll be back in the mix.
#3 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:40 PM ESTI find it funny that everyone is advocating to LOWER academic standards, as if Notre Dame exists to play football and not to educate. Here's an idea: Just pay the players outright, and if they're smart enough to get admitted, they can use their income to attend the university. It is a slap in the face to every smart student slinging coffee at Starbucks to give some illiterate thug a degree because he is good at playing a game.
#4 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 PM ESTND has put itself into this position. People may argue that the"big" schools have the advantage...ND is a big school with big bucks. The problem with ND is that it is stuck in its traditions. Playing the military academies is nice, but it will not give a team the experience it needs to compete against the better schools. Being an independent also holds this team back. ND believes it is this very special school that should be separated and unique. As long as they believe this this team will be in decline. That is a good thing!
#5 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:49 PM ESTDon't they always seem to go to a bowl game?
Education first! That's what college is there for.
#6 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:04 PM ESTAcademic standards? Go do some research about their standards and the standards for D-I athletes in general. Come up with a better excuse. Stop buying into the myth.
From December 2008. Where's ND?
FOOTBALL SAT SCORES:
THE TOP 10
School, Average
#8 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:13 PM ESTDont be a bozo - Get Real!
In the final consideration SATs have nothing to do with it. The only real stats that count are athlete graduation rates. Here are the numbers you need to consider. Check out the Athlete/Graduation rate for Notre Dame and then make a comment.
1. Notre Dame 94%
2. Stanford 93
T3. BC 92
T3. Duke 92
T3. Northwestern 92
6. Vanderbilt 91
7. Wake Forest 83
8. Texas Tech 79
T9. Baylor 78
T9. Nebraska 78
T9. UNC 78
T9. Penn State 78
T13. UConn 77
T13. Indiana 77
T15. Colorado 75
T15. Iowa 75
T15. Syracuse 75
T15. Virginia Tech 75
19. Cincinnati 73
T20. Illinois 70
T20. Michigan 70
T20. Miami 70
T20. Rutgers 70
24. Florida State 69
T25. Clemson 68
T25. Florida 68
T25. Maryland 68
T25. Wash State 68
.........................................
T29. Kansas State 67
T29. Pitt 67
31. Virginia 66
T32. South Carolina 65
T32. Washington 65
T34. Oregon State 64
T34. Ole Miss 63
T34. Miss State 63
T34. Purdue 63
T34. West Virginia 63
T34. Wisconsin 63
T40. Okla State 62
T40. UCLA 62
42. Arizona State 60
T43. N.C. State 59
T43. Missouri 59
45. Louisville 58
46. Auburn 57
T47. Kentucky 56
T47. Texas A&M 56
T47. South Florida 56
T50. Alabama 55
T50. Iowa State 55
T52. LSU 54
T52. Tennessee 54
T52. USC 54
T55. Cal 53
T55. Oregon 53
T55. Kansas 53
58. Ohio State 52
T58. Arkansas 52
T60. Minnesota 51
T60. Michigan State 51
62. Texas 50
T63. Georgia 48
T63. Georgia Tech 48
65. Oklahoma 46
66. Arizona 41
Wow generic but interesting except you ignore the many variables such as exhausted eligibility, six year grad mean, JUCO transfer, injury, and about a zillion other exceptions in the measure that wouldnt impact a school such as ND as much as it would impact a state school. But keep on shilling for ND....they need your help
"In the final consideration" SAT scores have everything to do with it. They are a measure of which schools are being academically selective about who they recruit, and therefore the hurdle the football program has to overcome. Graduation rates have NOTHING to do with that. Any school can hand out passing grades to as many players as they choose.
Willbert you are an idiot. Where is Stanford?
Are you saying that Stanford, in addition to ND, have SAT scores lower than 964?
I don't think so, Moron!
#9 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:23 PM ESTWillbert -- go post on the elementary school boards where you belong.
#11 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:30 PM ESTDon't be an arrogant Domer. What does Graduation rate have to do with recruiting and accepting players? Try and spin it all you want. SAT scores are a better representation of college admission and Notre Dame's SAT average is nothing special. Notre Dame's standards for players are not the problem.
And here's the number that really matters....6-6.
#12 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:31 PM ESTBefore you call someone a moron, do some research. A simple google search will give you the numbers. I took the Top 10 right from an article by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Don't confuse the high SAT scores of the student body as a whole as a reflection of the football program.
http://www.usnews.com/mobile/blogs/paper-trail/2008/12/30/athletes-show-huge-gaps-in-sat-scores.html
#13 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:35 PM ESTIf you want an example of how high academic standards don't hinder on the field (court) performance, just look at Duke Basketball.
#14 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:36 PM ESTI think Notre Dame pays the price for their own go-it-alone, don't join a conference attitude. The BCS is set up to favor major conference teams. If I am a blue chip recruit I look at the best schools, in the best conferences. And since most of the better recruits are coming from warm weather places like Florida where you can work on your skills year-round, it's makes it all the more difficult to recruit to South Bend.
#15 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:45 PM ESTMaybe instead of Notre Dame lowering their academic standards, high schools need to start putting more emphasis on getting a good education and less emphasis on being good in sports. Notre Dame shouldn't have to lower their standards just because student-athletes can't make the grades. If they want to play football at Notre Dame, they need to be able to make it in the classroom too. As a Notre Dame fan, I would rather see them lose, than see them lower their academic standards! It's time for students to learn to how to juggle sports and education together.
#16 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:42 PM ESTIf ND is where you want your degree from it doesnt matter who the coach is. How many will actually go on to pro careers? It's nice to play big time college ball, win a national championship, but a "regular life" goes on for most players. You should choose a school that prepares you for life without football; providing you with the academic credentials needed to be successful in life, beyond football. This probably will not be a popular post..but it is a more realistic one. Let's see if we can find a coach who stresses success on the field and in the classroom as well. I believe that the Notre Dame name and tradition still speaks for itself.
#17 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:50 PM ESTI wouldn't want to see them lower their academic standards just to get more recruits. Not to stereotype, but the 'best' defensive players tend to be big, quick, and reactive, but not necessarily smart. The next Irish coach needs to be able to build a 'smart' defense out of intelligent players that might not be as physically gifted as the felons-in-waiting that play in the SEC. It can be done, though. Ara did it, Dan did it, Lou did it. Who's next?
#18 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:14 PM ESTI just don't think ND is the attraction as it once was and the competition is tougher than it ever was.
#19 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 2:07 AM ESTND must not comprise on its academic standards for their football program. It's a great university that recruits student atheletes not mercenaries
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As long as ND continues to have much higher scholastic measures, they will not be able to draw some of the best players in the country